Thread: Ian Huntley's had throat slashed

it may not bring the crime rates down but it would save a boat load of money.

Originally Posted by hulababy

It is the Daily Mail.
Half of what they write is not true.
Having worked within the prison system, working on a one to one basis with lifer prisoners and high risk inmates, visiting the cells and the wings, talking to these men, and seeng exactly what does and does not happen within the prison walls I can honestly say that whenever I read the Daily Mail's take on prison life it bears no resemblence to real life. They talk rubbish with very little to back up their stories.

Whilst I agree with you in the whole about the Mail... I too have first hand experience of the penal system in the UK. Where I work is populated wholly with ex-offenders and my college has the ISIS contract providing education to the London Prisons. In both instances, I know that the offenders (or ex) have televisions, computers, games consoles, an "allowance", and telephone privileges - in many instances in their room (can't call it a cell because it isn't jail). All of which are things a 'prisoner' should not have access to.

Originally Posted by hulababy

Also near in mind that the presence of the death sentence does NOT bring down crime rates. There is no evidence long term which suggests this is the case. Why? Simple reason is that the criminals do not expect to get caught int he majority of cases, they do not stop and think first.

Again, I agree that there is little impact on crime where the capital punishment exists (though there is some empirical evidence to the contrary) - however where I differ is that I would prefer to put someone like Huntley to death rather than my tax money going to protect him and provide room&board in prison. Once you've raped or killed someone and denied them access to their 'human rights', you've lost all claim to your human rights.

I'm with Hula all the way (especially with the Daily Mail bit, a complete hate rag full of lies).
And several people have been executed in this country and have later been found innocent of their crimes - a postumous pardon is rather too late for them.

A very different perspective, my ex-bil's brother murdered his cousin, aided by another cousin. They were all young and drunk at the time. But I don't think to execute him would have been the right thing to do. He served his time in jail and came out a sorry man.
Very different from my sister's first husband. He killed himself in prison aged 40, because he couldn't bear his delinquent life of drugs and crime. He didn't see jail as a walkover either.

I worked in a high cat prison.

They had a small TV. It was earnt. There was no Sky apart from in the enhanced wing. Someone like Huntley, in our prison (our high cats were under 21y though), would not have been there. Enhanced involved meeting a range of targets, normally over about 3 months.

There was no computers allowed in cells or on wings, only in workshops and education, used for education or training purpioses. There was no internet access apart from in careers, used along side a careers advisor only with supervised access.

The allowance. Yes, they earn money through attending edicatin, workshops or labour. It is approx 30-40p per session - one session is a morning or afternoon. This could be topped up by people ont he outside (ie family) by approx £10 a week. This money could be used to purchase things from Canteen - which is a shop selling toiletries, fruit, some snacks, cigarettes, greeting cards, papers, agazines, etc. The money is also used to pay for phone cards. Offenders don't hold this money at all, they have no physical access to it. It is held centrally.

There was a couple of games consoles - again an earned priveldge, used every so often. When in lowe cat it is a little more relaxed as the idea is that we get these people ready for release. Again on enhances they had more frequent access.

There were no telephones within cells at all. there was one on each floor of each wing.

The offenders on basic or standard wore prison issue clothes - basically a jogging suit in a set colour, and t shirts. All clothes printed with prison issue stamps. Those on enhanced had slightly more leeway. However visiable names are not allowed, so the vast majority of designer clothes would be out immediately. And could only be purchased from a small range of outlets via the prison.

The DM appears to visit an entirely different environment to the ones I know of. My friend works at one of the high cat prisons for adults, with prisoners like Huntley. It is not as the DM portrays at all.

Oh, and yes - I always used first names or Mr xx with clients. I personally hate the use of surnames only in all situations. I don't feel it helps with relationships within that kind of envionment, and in a prison you do need to have a working relationship.

The prison system is not perfect and has its problems, but the DM talks rubbish ont his matte IME, and in the experience of my friends and colleagues who have been, amd many still are, working in such environments.

I think it sii also worth remembering that the prison system has to work for all, and the vast majority of our offenders will be released at some point. Prison is supposed to be mostly abut rehabilitation, so we need to have some form of normality in their to enable people not to become institutionilised and get worse. Now someone like IH won't be released, but for the sake of all the other offenders we have to maintain the rehabilitation aspect.

I will never agree with the death sentence in any situation at all.

Originally Posted by sabian

Again, I agree that there is little impact on crime where the capital punishment exists (though there is some empirical evidence to the contrary) - however where I differ is that I would prefer to put someone like Huntley to death rather than my tax money going to protect him and provide room&board in prison. Once you've raped or killed someone and denied them access to their 'human rights', you've lost all claim to your human rights.

Originally Posted by sabian

All things aside... What gets me, is the prison system in this country....

...

Back home, you go to jail and you get an 8x8 concrete cell with steel bunk beds, a steel sink, and a steel shitter. That's where you spend 23 of 24 hours a day. And that's a relatively 'cooshy' jail - some of the maximum security joints in the south are - well... Extreme.

There is absolutely no incentive to remain a 'law abiding' citizen anymore, and frankly, I'm surprised there isn't more crime than there is.

2003 statistics: probably still fairly true?

The United States has the highest prison population rate in the world, some 701 per 100,000
of the national population, followed by Russia (606), Belarus (554), Kazakhstan and the U.S.
Vi rgin Islands (both 522), the Cayman Islands (501), Turkmenistan (489), Belize (459),
B e rmuda (447), Suriname (437), Dominica (420) and Ukraine (415).

l

H o w e v e r, more than three fifths of countries (60.5%) have rates below 150 per 100,000. (The
United Kingdom’s rate of 141 per 100,000 of the national population places it above the midpoint

in the World List; it is the highest among countries of the European Union.)

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/r234.pdf

All that proves Jen is that if you commit a crime in the States, you're in prison for it. Not left out with huge funding grants.

The kids at my school are 'worth' an upwards of £30k a head via govn't funding. Despite the fact that adult funding is all but gone - and with the latest spate of Uni funding cuts, it kills me that most of my tax money goes onto 'educating' the same people who'd steal your last pound sooner than pass a spelling test.

the death sentence is too easy.. these low lifes should be made to suffer.... I don't think this will be the last time someone attacks Huntley......

I am all for capital punishment in cases like Huntley, slow and painful if possible with a good bit of hummiliation thrown in for good measure. The death penalty may not put potential criminals off offending but money aside I for one would sleep easier knowing at least one less evil B*****d was walking the streets with my children. ITA with Sabian that when a person commits a crime as serious as child murder/abuse etc they loose all human rights (I don't believe that all murders deserve the death penalty btw, each case to be judged on its own facts) but certainly where he is concerned I wish that inmate had done a better job and finished him off!

Rant over LOL